The Loaded Glove’s Boxmetric Fantasy Bout Scoring System
The Boxmetric System was designed to be an argument starter; each category represents a “Round” and should be scored as such; however not every round is related to in the ring action. All great fights are filled with factors that we debate before and after the fight; and there’s no coincidence that the ones that have the most factors are the ones we argue about for years. The Boxmetric system applies a numeric score to such factors while combining the traditional Boxing categories that DO apply to in ring action. The result is a “score” but the score is a hybrid statistic generated by subjects real Boxing fans love to debate and discuss on Social Media and in Barber Shops. The Boxmetric System can be applied to current bouts and it can be used as a template for anyone looking to win fantasy leagues or bets. The Rounds/Categories may change and be altered based on the importance relating to the Bout being discussed but the number of rounds (when pitting historic foes) will always be 15, the Championship Limit. The System is for entertainment purposes only and we encourage those who read our bouts to send their own rounds in to Loaded Gloves, the longer the debate on a particular round goes the better.
Fantasy Bout #1 Muhammad Ali vs. Mike Tyson
Round One: Pre Fight Psychology and Head Games
This is almost an unfair category being that Ali created pre fight head games; in fact he too called it “Round One” when dealing with a formative opponent. But don’t just assume this is a 10-8 Round because men like Frazier and Foreman were mutes compared to the early charisma and late terror of Mike Tyson. Ali may start off calling Tyson a ‘Pitt Bull’ or make some reference to his high pitched voice but you could trust Iron Mike to come back with some pretty graphic unsettling threats in return. Ali was secretly afraid of Sonny Liston, who gave him an open handed smack at a Vegas Casino when Cassius Clay was just a loudmouth kid. Tyson is of that cloth, and he said things into a Microphone that Liston said (or thought) off camera; the kind of things you hear in Prison. There will be some Homophobic rants, attacks on religion and Black authenticity (from both men) but it will be entertaining. The press conference alone would draw more than most fights today. Don King will side with Tyson because Ali treated him like a valet while later he controlled Mikes mind. Ali will win this important first round but not by much.
Score Ali 10-9
Round Two: The Measurables
When dealing with Heavyweights I prefer to select the night they could have beaten any man who ever lived to decide optimum weight. The Night Tyson “mean mugged” the WBA title from Michael Spinks he was 218 ¼ lbs. at 5’10 with a 71 inch reach. When a newly christened Muhammad Ali shuffled for the first time he was in the Houston Astrodome vs. Cleveland Williams, he weighed in a 212 ¾ lbs. at 6’3 possessing a 78 inch reach. Styles aside (and next up) you have to favor the taller man with the longer reach because the wingspan allows him to do more strategically. Mike Tyson was a heavily muscled version of Joe Frazier who surprisingly had a longer reach than Mike, when looking at him leaving prison back in 95’ I thought he could have easily fought at Cruiserweight that day. Mike Tyson was thick enough to carry 218 lbs. effectively but he was a different man once the scale reached the middle 220s. Ali was a naturally big boned man who could carry 224 lbs. well; his later career is filled with overweight performances where he could still be effective and quick in spurts- the luxury of being a taller man.
Score Ali 10-9
Round Three: Style
Both men possessed styles that were perfect for their dimensions so round one is a feeling out round based on who imposed their style with more success. Ali had the advantage of Height and reach and he was effective at that style for a much longer period of time than Mike Tyson was with his. Tyson, a questionable 5’11 had the burden of making the fight coming forward behind the vaunted “peekaboo” defense. Ali at his worst won fights late in his career simply by jabbing and holding; once Tyson lost technique he was a “sitting duck” for any foe committed to the jab and not intimidated by him.
Score Ali 10-9
Round Four: Foot speed
Contrary to popular belief this was harder to determine than most people think. Ali in his youth was simply a dancer unseen before and since but Mike Tyson had some of the quickest feet ever. Smaller Heavyweights absorbed punishment in order to get into punching range, in his prime Tyson was able to get close without one warning jab landed to his head. When he got there he could shift and place his feet guaranteeing him great leverage while delivering punches. However, Muhammad Ali was from another dimension when it came to foot speed and he made it nearly impossible to get close in his prime so he wins this round by a closer margin than public perception.
Score Ali 10-9
Round Five: Punching speed
Muhammad Ali was compared to Sugar Ray Robinson frame by frame and proved to be faster than the greatest Welterweight who ever lived. Both Ali and Tyson were special for speed; Tyson also possessed hands much faster than a man who weighed 218 lbs. With speed both men separated themselves from their opposition and vanquished foes in different ways. Ali could surprise and numb opponents from long range and Tyson could double and triple punches when he had his prey against the ropes. Ali is synonymous with speed, but Tysons power was not only a function of speed but one of the contributing factors that led some to ask if he would one day contribute to a fatality. We won’t go with sensationalized opinions here, both men possessed revolutionary hand speed for the heavyweight division.
Score Even 10-10
Round Six: Punching Power
Mike Tyson is simply put the hardest puncher in Heavyweight history and it isn’t even close due to his hand speed. Ali punched harder as he got older and more flat footed but he never hit hard enough to concuss a man with one punch. Mike Tyson authored a double knock out vs. Trevor Berbick with a sweeping hook and most men had that “deer in the headlights” look the minute he put his hands on them. Why else was Manny Steward yelling at Lennox Lewis when the Brit clearly had Mike under control in their 2002 bout? because he knew Mike could end matters with one punch despite being smaller. Unlike some punchers Mike Tysons power was merciful; you didn’t feel it, you woke up feeling rested and asking your corner what happened. Tyson takes this round by what else, a knockdown. Score Tyson 10-8
Round Seven: Chin
Ali is lionized for his chin and the amount of punishment he absorbed at the hands of great punchers like Joe Frazier and Ernie Shavers. And yet Tyson wins the first round that did not turn out the way most thought it would. Ali was a sucker for a left hook and was dropped 3 times in his career by the same punch. Sir Henry Cooper if not for his “paper thin skin” could have derailed the Ali myth and Doug Jones almost derailed Ali’s title shot by dropping him early in a so called “tune up bout”. Instead of focusing on how quickly Ali rose from that volcanic hook by Frazier in their 1971 bout the fact is THAT was the third time he’d been dropped with a left hook. Mike Tyson had a huge neck and in his losses to Douglass and Lennox Lewis absorbed a heavy amount of clean right crosses to the face. Tyson may have lost fights by Knockout but you could never put him on his pants with one shot so he wins this round by a controversial margin.
Score Tyson 10-9
Round Eight: Stamina
Only one word can explain who wins this round and that word is “Manila”. Tyson lost steam over the late rounds and never won a war of attrition which would never translate well against a fighter like Ali. Late in Ali’s career when fights still went 15 rounds he was able to pull out victories against fellow Hall of Famers Ken Norton and Joe Frazier. Both men abhorred training as they aged but Ali in his worst condition went 15 rounds, Tyson ended his career having to be helped up from the canvas because he collapsed on his own accord. Because of superior stamina Ali could keep the circus of his career going long after he was “finished” but Mike Tyson couldn’t hide what had become of him. Mike Tyson was also vulnerable to taller men holding and leaning on him and sapping his energy, Lennox Lewis used this tactic effectively against Mike; so would Ali.
Score Ali 10-9
Round Nine: Accuracy and Punch Placement
Ali’s accuracy was based on one punch, the jab. He could paint aggressors with double and triple jabs and render their attack futile; this was clearly evident in his dismantling of Sonny Liston. Mike Tyson was the greatest combination puncher in Heavyweight history, early in his career he followed a numbered code developed by Cus D’Amato that allowed disciples to effectively train Mike. Perfect torque and a commitment to variation allowed Mike to get his punches “home” when Heavyweights weren’t expected to pull off such complicated body/head combinations. For a power puncher in his prime he landed with frightening frequency. In an upset round I’ll take Tysons punch placement because you didn’t know where he was going to hit a man, Ali’s accuracy was inherent in his usual size and reach advantage. Something Holmes would go on to replicate.
Score Tyson 10-9
Round Ten: Defense
Muhammad Ali rarely got touched early in his career but his defense was a product of his fast feet. When close to Ali he usually pulled back making him vulnerable to the left hooks that dropped early in his career and debilitated him in Manila. Mike Tyson at his best was a whirling dervish who utilized head movement and a high guard. He could get under a taller foes jab and rarely was he caught clean with a hook on the way inside. Ali fancied himself as a scientific fighter but he rarely moved his head in the ways of the sweet science and this caught up to him when he lost his legs. The “Rope a Dope” was a creation of necessity but when you think about it holding your hands up is a rudiment taught to boxers at 8 yrs. old. Ali rarely countered off of defense when Mike Tyson set up a lot of his offense based on a missed jab.
Score Tyson 10-9
Round Eleven: Determination
Ali won this round 10-9 but if I could score it 11-0 I would; Ali’s whole mystique was rooted in the very real feeling that he was somebody special. Background, grooming and foundation are important in this round. Ali was doted on and spoiled by two parents; Mike Tyson was abandoned. Ali was sure he was “The Greatest” and he pretty much manifested it with his in ring conduct. Mike Tyson was sure he was going to hurt you and once he failed to do so he had nothing to stand on. Some say that Tysons ring walk was the most intimidating spectacle in boxing History and to that I disagree. The most intimidating was seeing a 6’3 Adonis, head bowed and hands outstretched in acknowledgment of a higher power. Ali was a force of self-belief and wasn’t shy about how “big” he was, Mike Tyson was a guy who knew how vulnerable he was and when he was challenged he didn’t respond well.
Score Ali 10-9
Round Twelve: Athleticism
Athleticism is and should be transferable, in other words can I see this Boxer doing something else at an elite level. Ali was graceful and fluid in movements with reflexes of a man half his size. And yet I can’t see Ali (even at 6’3) as a tight end or even a shooting guard in the NBA, maybe because there is an explosive quality lacking in his movements. Mike Tyson would have been a monstrous Middle Linebacker in the NFL in the mold of a Ray Lewis or Mike Singletary. Mike Tyson thrived on contact, hunting and locating the target and then blowing it up. Both men are in their natural element in the ring, but Ali would be shocked by how much more athletically gifted Tyson is than his contemporaries. Ali would be left to ponder what if Joe Frazier had comparable speed and quickness and the explosive velocity of a young George Foreman.
Score Tyson 10-9
Round Thirteen: Level of Competition
Muhammad Ali fought in the deepest era of Heavyweights to ever grace the ring and could have more Hall of Famers on his resume than any champion ever. He started his career dethroning Sonny Liston and reclaimed the title by beating George Foreman; TWO of the greatest Heavyweights ever. Arguably Ali faced three men who are rated higher historically than Mike Tyson himself. With the proliferation of belts in the years since Ali retired men like Ernie Shavers and Jerry Quarry would have no doubt won fragments of the title had they been around in the late 80’s. Mike Tyson can’t control when he was born, but a large part of his legend was established against men who would not have been competitive in the 1970’s. Ali drops Tyson with a quick historical cross in this round, just like the one he landed on George Foreman in 1974.
Score Ali 10-8
Round Fourteen: Trainers D’Amato vs. Dundee
Cus D’ Amato did not want his fighter Floyd Patterson to face Sonny Liston back in 1962 because he knew what he saw. After Liston trounced Patterson twice the old man became obsessed with finding “his” version of Sonny Liston, Tyson he found it. Both D’Amato and Angelo Dundee have trained other champions but are forever linked to Tyson and Ali. This is round 14 so the question is how did each man impact their respective fighter? And how much of it is useful? Dundee was a calm hand but he never “taught” Ali anything, under duress however he was a quick thinker who gave the right instruction to suit the moment. Ali was basically self-motivated but Dundee was shrewd and fiercely loyal to the champ. When Ali was dropped by Henry Cooper Dundee made an incision in his glove and complained until they were replaced giving “Clay” time to clear his head. Cus D’ Amato was Dr. Frankenstein and he built Mike Tyson from the very first brick. He artificially transfused self-esteem into Mike and that gift alone would give him the support to deal with the psychological mismatch against Ali.
Score Tyson 10-9
Round Fifteen: Ring IQ and Ability to Adjust
Don’t be naïve, some fighters are just smarter, just ask Juan Manuel Marquez. Muhammad Ali’s intelligence was often inflated by writers who loved him and held him up as a beacon of a generation. But in the ring being able to adjust is a product of IQ; so the fact that the “rope a dope” was neither a pre-fight plan nor a real tactic is irrelevant-the point is Ali was smart enough to know that Foreman knew how to cut off the ring immediately. Mike Tyson, when in his prime was extremely smart when it came to jabbing taller men and opening them up for multi-punch grenades once he had them pinned on the ropes. However, Mike Tyson was never synonymous with plan B because a lot of his IQ came from a system. All it took was a stiff jab and courage to derail him. If he were doing well early against Ali (believable) Ali would do something different, something Angelo Dundee would have to ask about after the round is over. If Ali were doing well early, Mike Tyson would either come stronger or fold, despite looking up to legends he studied on film he never inherited their tricks, just a bag-just bricks.
Score Ali 10-9
And the Winner is…….
Mike Tyson is beside himself hurling threats to Ali, Louis Farrakhan and anybody else who happens to be standing near “The Greatest”. Ali is shouting “I am the Greatest! I told you he was a bum!” to all of the assembled ringside observers. As one of the judges I scored the fight 143-141 in favor of Ali, Ali won 9 rounds to 6 and both men scored knockdowns in the categories of punching power (Tyson) and level of competition (Ali). Until the next Boxmetric Fantasy Boxing match-up, Keep your hands up and protect yourself at all times.
Round Thirteen: Level of Competition
Muhammad Ali fought in the deepest era of Heavyweights to ever grace the ring and could have more Hall of Famers on his resume than any champion ever. He started his career dethroning Sonny Liston and reclaimed the title by beating George Foreman; TWO of the greatest Heavyweights ever. Arguably Ali faced three men who are rated higher historically than Mike Tyson himself. With the proliferation of belts in the years since Ali retired men like Ernie Shavers and Jerry Quarry would have no doubt won fragments of the title had they been around in the late 80’s. Mike Tyson can’t control when he was born, but a large part of his legend was established against men who would not have been competitive in the 1970’s. Ali drops Tyson with a quick historical cross in this round, just like the one he landed on George Foreman in 1974.
Score Ali 10-8
Round Fourteen: Trainers D’Amato vs. Dundee
Cus D’ Amato did not want his fighter Floyd Patterson to face Sonny Liston back in 1962 because he knew what he saw. After Liston trounced Patterson twice the old man became obsessed with finding “his” version of Sonny Liston, Tyson he found it. Both D’Amato and Angelo Dundee have trained other champions but are forever linked to Tyson and Ali. This is round 14 so the question is how did each man impact their respective fighter? And how much of it is useful? Dundee was a calm hand but he never “taught” Ali anything, under duress however he was a quick thinker who gave the right instruction to suit the moment. Ali was basically self-motivated but Dundee was shrewd and fiercely loyal to the champ. When Ali was dropped by Henry Cooper Dundee made an incision in his glove and complained until they were replaced giving “Clay” time to clear his head. Cus D’ Amato was Dr. Frankenstein and he built Mike Tyson from the very first brick. He artificially transfused self-esteem into Mike and that gift alone would give him the support to deal with the psychological mismatch against Ali.
Score Tyson 10-9
Round Fifteen: Ring IQ and Ability to Adjust
Don’t be naïve, some fighters are just smarter, just ask Juan Manuel Marquez. Muhammad Ali’s intelligence was often inflated by writers who loved him and held him up as a beacon of a generation. But in the ring being able to adjust is a product of IQ; so the fact that the “rope a dope” was neither a pre-fight plan nor a real tactic is irrelevant-the point is Ali was smart enough to know that Foreman knew how to cut off the ring immediately. Mike Tyson, when in his prime was extremely smart when it came to jabbing taller men and opening them up for multi-punch grenades once he had them pinned on the ropes. However, Mike Tyson was never synonymous with plan B because a lot of his IQ came from a system. All it took was a stiff jab and courage to derail him. If he were doing well early against Ali (believable) Ali would do something different, something Angelo Dundee would have to ask about after the round is over. If Ali were doing well early, Mike Tyson would either come stronger or fold, despite looking up to legends he studied on film he never inherited their tricks, just a bag-just bricks.
Score Ali 10-9
And the Winner is…….
Mike Tyson is beside himself hurling threats to Ali, Louis Farrakhan and anybody else who happens to be standing near “The Greatest”. Ali is shouting “I am the Greatest! I told you he was a bum!” to all of the assembled ringside observers. As one of the judges I scored the fight 143-141 in favor of Ali, Ali won 9 rounds to 6 and both men scored knockdowns in the categories of punching power (Tyson) and level of competition (Ali). Until the next Boxmetric Fantasy Boxing match-up, Keep your hands up and protect yourself at all times.
